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	<title>Comments on: Smoking in the USA</title>
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		<title>By: The Big 100 &#171; Forth and Back</title>
		<link>http://forthandback.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/smoking-in-the-usa/#comment-416</link>
		<dc:creator>The Big 100 &#171; Forth and Back</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forthandback.wordpress.com/?p=48#comment-416</guid>
		<description>[...] had some fun on here, mostly due to the Smoking Ban and Natural Family Planning but mostly its been T-Dizzle, The Bearded Man, Farmacy, Dani, Viana17, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] had some fun on here, mostly due to the Smoking Ban and Natural Family Planning but mostly its been T-Dizzle, The Bearded Man, Farmacy, Dani, Viana17, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Forth</title>
		<link>http://forthandback.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/smoking-in-the-usa/#comment-163</link>
		<dc:creator>Forth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 01:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forthandback.wordpress.com/?p=48#comment-163</guid>
		<description>Just so we&#039;re all clear, this discussion is over.  Mr. Camel&#039;s comments from here on out are being deleted.  It is not because of the ridiculous drivel he is spouting or his consistant support of a fallacy that even the Phillip Morris has given up the ghost on.
The company&#039;s website &quot;stated that there is &#039;overwhelming medical and scientific consensus&#039; that smoking causes lung cancer, emphysema, and heart disease.&quot;  ~&lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/473630.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;BBC, 1999&lt;/a&gt;
No his comments are being deleted because he has crossed a line of civility by using vulgarity that I won&#039;t let people aim at my friends.  Any civil reader of this website is welcome to continue posting as a friend.  Mr. Camel is officially &lt;i&gt;persona non grata&lt;/i&gt;.
If you would like to hear more from him I would advise finding his blog where ever it is.  Forth and Back will no longer be supplying him with his own pulpit with which to rail at the storm.
~Forth</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just so we&#8217;re all clear, this discussion is over.  Mr. Camel&#8217;s comments from here on out are being deleted.  It is not because of the ridiculous drivel he is spouting or his consistant support of a fallacy that even the Phillip Morris has given up the ghost on.<br />
The company&#8217;s website &#8220;stated that there is &#8216;overwhelming medical and scientific consensus&#8217; that smoking causes lung cancer, emphysema, and heart disease.&#8221;  ~<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/473630.stm" rel="nofollow">BBC, 1999</a><br />
No his comments are being deleted because he has crossed a line of civility by using vulgarity that I won&#8217;t let people aim at my friends.  Any civil reader of this website is welcome to continue posting as a friend.  Mr. Camel is officially <i>persona non grata</i>.<br />
If you would like to hear more from him I would advise finding his blog where ever it is.  Forth and Back will no longer be supplying him with his own pulpit with which to rail at the storm.<br />
~Forth</p>
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		<title>By: Back</title>
		<link>http://forthandback.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/smoking-in-the-usa/#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>Back</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 15:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forthandback.wordpress.com/?p=48#comment-159</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately you made smoking somebody else&#039;s business when you called Forth a liar and started your tiring display of ignorance. Cancer, emphysema, and heart disease are caused by many things. Carcinogens cause cancer, and those are found in cigarettes. Smoking is the primary cause of emphysema whether your old stubborn mind wants to believe it or not, and nearly anything from genetics to smoking to being fat can cause heart disease. Funny but those public health organizations you directed us to say nothing of Nazis--not to mention you were already told that Nazi talk is the weakest form of argument, but then again nothing really sinks in with you, does it? 
However, tobacco studies on animals conducted in 2004 DID cause tumors and you  haven&#039;t produced your little 60 year-old animal study simply because it doesn&#039;t exist, having been wiped off the face of credible science loooong ago. 
http://www.chestjournal.org/cgi/content/full/125/5_suppl/128S  
As for calling out FarmacyMan (who certainly must have an IQ greater than the sum total of your blood pressure) and his co-workers &quot;hating the hand that feeds,&quot; you should think about that every time you receive your monthly Social Security check from this Nazi Government of ours. But clearly you will go on living in some archaic mindset of times past and continue failing to realize that there have actually been advancements in science and medicine, and there is no scary conspiracy out to get us all--I&#039;m a liberal and as fed up with this country as the next person, but you are clearly paranoid. 
Now if you&#039;d please confine your foolish banter and childish intelligence-bashing to the rest of the nutcases in Florida, your comments will no longer be regarded here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately you made smoking somebody else&#8217;s business when you called Forth a liar and started your tiring display of ignorance. Cancer, emphysema, and heart disease are caused by many things. Carcinogens cause cancer, and those are found in cigarettes. Smoking is the primary cause of emphysema whether your old stubborn mind wants to believe it or not, and nearly anything from genetics to smoking to being fat can cause heart disease. Funny but those public health organizations you directed us to say nothing of Nazis&#8211;not to mention you were already told that Nazi talk is the weakest form of argument, but then again nothing really sinks in with you, does it?<br />
However, tobacco studies on animals conducted in 2004 DID cause tumors and you  haven&#8217;t produced your little 60 year-old animal study simply because it doesn&#8217;t exist, having been wiped off the face of credible science loooong ago.<br />
<a href="http://www.chestjournal.org/cgi/content/full/125/5_suppl/128S" rel="nofollow">http://www.chestjournal.org/cgi/content/full/125/5_suppl/128S</a><br />
As for calling out FarmacyMan (who certainly must have an IQ greater than the sum total of your blood pressure) and his co-workers &#8220;hating the hand that feeds,&#8221; you should think about that every time you receive your monthly Social Security check from this Nazi Government of ours. But clearly you will go on living in some archaic mindset of times past and continue failing to realize that there have actually been advancements in science and medicine, and there is no scary conspiracy out to get us all&#8211;I&#8217;m a liberal and as fed up with this country as the next person, but you are clearly paranoid.<br />
Now if you&#8217;d please confine your foolish banter and childish intelligence-bashing to the rest of the nutcases in Florida, your comments will no longer be regarded here.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Camel</title>
		<link>http://forthandback.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/smoking-in-the-usa/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Camel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 11:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forthandback.wordpress.com/?p=48#comment-158</guid>
		<description>Back:

Those carbon deposits in city dwellers lungs are harmless, but they show how much industrial pollution they&#039;ve breathed, And coal miner&#039;s lungs aren&#039;t  very pretty, either. But those rotten smokers&#039; lungs that are shown to school kids are phony, like the rest of Nazis&#039;  claptrap.
It&#039;s not possible for a surgeon to tell if a person is a smoker by looking. This information is on the Internet, but I&#039;m not bothering to look it up for you to dispute.

FarmacyMan:

Before you sprain your brain any further, let me inform you I started smoking at 15 and am now 70. My health is good for my age although I don&#039;t water ski any more. Blood pressure 118/70. Retired and active. Question: where do get your Internet time?

Without Big Pharma the medical community would be digging sprouts. Why do you hate the hand that feeds you?

You numbskull, I&#039;m going to give you some
stuff to Google. Look up Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. Look up Gro Harlem Brundtland.
You&#039;ll find out the whole story on Tobacco Nazis and their plans for the human race.
Look up Animal studies/tobacco as well if you want to get smart, although you seem to be happy being an idiot.
 
The causes of cancer, emphysema and heart disease are unknown. Nonsmokers are afflicted as well. You&#039;re perpetrating an exercise in pure fiction.

I&#039;ve never claimed to be anything but a poster on this blog . More fiction.

I don&#039;t give a rat&#039;s ass whether you want to argue or not. I&#039;ll argue that you should find something else to be fanatical about. My smoking is none of your goddam business. 

The argument in the tobacco war is whether dilute secondhand smoke is a killer like the professional bullshitter Richard Carmona says.
You have to have a two digit IQ to believe it or repeat it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back:</p>
<p>Those carbon deposits in city dwellers lungs are harmless, but they show how much industrial pollution they&#8217;ve breathed, And coal miner&#8217;s lungs aren&#8217;t  very pretty, either. But those rotten smokers&#8217; lungs that are shown to school kids are phony, like the rest of Nazis&#8217;  claptrap.<br />
It&#8217;s not possible for a surgeon to tell if a person is a smoker by looking. This information is on the Internet, but I&#8217;m not bothering to look it up for you to dispute.</p>
<p>FarmacyMan:</p>
<p>Before you sprain your brain any further, let me inform you I started smoking at 15 and am now 70. My health is good for my age although I don&#8217;t water ski any more. Blood pressure 118/70. Retired and active. Question: where do get your Internet time?</p>
<p>Without Big Pharma the medical community would be digging sprouts. Why do you hate the hand that feeds you?</p>
<p>You numbskull, I&#8217;m going to give you some<br />
stuff to Google. Look up Robert Wood Johnson Foundation. Look up Gro Harlem Brundtland.<br />
You&#8217;ll find out the whole story on Tobacco Nazis and their plans for the human race.<br />
Look up Animal studies/tobacco as well if you want to get smart, although you seem to be happy being an idiot.</p>
<p>The causes of cancer, emphysema and heart disease are unknown. Nonsmokers are afflicted as well. You&#8217;re perpetrating an exercise in pure fiction.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve never claimed to be anything but a poster on this blog . More fiction.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t give a rat&#8217;s ass whether you want to argue or not. I&#8217;ll argue that you should find something else to be fanatical about. My smoking is none of your goddam business. </p>
<p>The argument in the tobacco war is whether dilute secondhand smoke is a killer like the professional bullshitter Richard Carmona says.<br />
You have to have a two digit IQ to believe it or repeat it.</p>
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		<title>By: FarmacyMan</title>
		<link>http://forthandback.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/smoking-in-the-usa/#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>FarmacyMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 01:29:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forthandback.wordpress.com/?p=48#comment-156</guid>
		<description>Dearest Joe,

Since there&#039;s obviously no getting thru to you and you&#039;ll continue to believe whatever nonsense you choose to believe, and frankly after reading your latest spewed shit I&#039;m seriously doubting you&#039;re even legit in what you claim to be and frankly believe you&#039;re nothing but a troll.  All your arguments are fallacious and you just blatantly claimed I said something I simply never said.  

The medical community as a whole (especially most pharmacists) hates BigPharma with a passion.  Yet never once have I considered that they are behind some conspiracy to make us all think smoking is bad for us.  I present you with linked data to peer reviewed journal articles.  You claim to have some study from the 50s that I specifically asked to see and you have yet to produce.  

Finally, You say you&#039;ve been smoking for 55 years.  Assuming you started at 18, that&#039;d make you...73 years old.  I&#039;m pretty impressed that someone who is 73 uses the internet so much (although I suppose you&#039;re &quot;retired&quot; so you&#039;ve got tons of free time on your hands).   At best, I&#039;d say you started smoking at 10, making you still 65, with the same comments as above.  

You&#039;re obviously not going to listen to reason so I have no reason to continue. But I finish with this.  As can be inferred from my name, I am a Pharmacist.  Since you seem to be such a fan of anecdotal evidence, I see tons of people each week suffering from one or both: chronic bronchitis and emphysema.  Explain to me why 100% (and yes I am fucking serious when I say 100%) Did smoke, or currently smoke?  Why do I see people who quit via the patch, gum, or Chantix have serious drops in blood pressure (which has been known as a cause of cardiovascular disease even back in the 50&#039;s when you were in your prime).  Yup I saw it so therefore it must be incontestably true.  Sorry thats the end.  No more arguing.  It happens.  Period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dearest Joe,</p>
<p>Since there&#8217;s obviously no getting thru to you and you&#8217;ll continue to believe whatever nonsense you choose to believe, and frankly after reading your latest spewed shit I&#8217;m seriously doubting you&#8217;re even legit in what you claim to be and frankly believe you&#8217;re nothing but a troll.  All your arguments are fallacious and you just blatantly claimed I said something I simply never said.  </p>
<p>The medical community as a whole (especially most pharmacists) hates BigPharma with a passion.  Yet never once have I considered that they are behind some conspiracy to make us all think smoking is bad for us.  I present you with linked data to peer reviewed journal articles.  You claim to have some study from the 50s that I specifically asked to see and you have yet to produce.  </p>
<p>Finally, You say you&#8217;ve been smoking for 55 years.  Assuming you started at 18, that&#8217;d make you&#8230;73 years old.  I&#8217;m pretty impressed that someone who is 73 uses the internet so much (although I suppose you&#8217;re &#8220;retired&#8221; so you&#8217;ve got tons of free time on your hands).   At best, I&#8217;d say you started smoking at 10, making you still 65, with the same comments as above.  </p>
<p>You&#8217;re obviously not going to listen to reason so I have no reason to continue. But I finish with this.  As can be inferred from my name, I am a Pharmacist.  Since you seem to be such a fan of anecdotal evidence, I see tons of people each week suffering from one or both: chronic bronchitis and emphysema.  Explain to me why 100% (and yes I am fucking serious when I say 100%) Did smoke, or currently smoke?  Why do I see people who quit via the patch, gum, or Chantix have serious drops in blood pressure (which has been known as a cause of cardiovascular disease even back in the 50&#8217;s when you were in your prime).  Yup I saw it so therefore it must be incontestably true.  Sorry thats the end.  No more arguing.  It happens.  Period.</p>
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		<title>By: Back</title>
		<link>http://forthandback.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/smoking-in-the-usa/#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>Back</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 01:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forthandback.wordpress.com/?p=48#comment-155</guid>
		<description>And such was my point. As for the cadaver lab, I was doing that in school. You know, where I got a modern education and learned biological facts from actual scientific minds.
Lungs cannot fully cleanse themselves. This is why the lungs of people who lived in the city are speckled with carbon deposits. If you can show me where the hell you pulled that from, go right ahead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And such was my point. As for the cadaver lab, I was doing that in school. You know, where I got a modern education and learned biological facts from actual scientific minds.<br />
Lungs cannot fully cleanse themselves. This is why the lungs of people who lived in the city are speckled with carbon deposits. If you can show me where the hell you pulled that from, go right ahead.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Camel</title>
		<link>http://forthandback.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/smoking-in-the-usa/#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Camel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 00:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forthandback.wordpress.com/?p=48#comment-154</guid>
		<description>Back:

Are you trying to be funny? If you suck on the exhaust of a Greyhound bus you&#039;ll be dead in five minutes. And what the hell are you doing in a cadaver lab plucking lungs?

Lungs have the ability to clean themselves of any contaminant. If they didn&#039;t, your pristine lungs would be black from Greyhound exhaust.

I explained why  the 50 year old studies are legitimate and today&#039;s are not in a way that
if you dispute it you&#039;re an ass. You don&#039;t care. You&#039;ve been irrevocably brainwashed and can&#039;t process anything but antitobacco propaganda.
Thank goodness you don&#039;t have any political power.

And Smoke-Free, that goes for you too, no brain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back:</p>
<p>Are you trying to be funny? If you suck on the exhaust of a Greyhound bus you&#8217;ll be dead in five minutes. And what the hell are you doing in a cadaver lab plucking lungs?</p>
<p>Lungs have the ability to clean themselves of any contaminant. If they didn&#8217;t, your pristine lungs would be black from Greyhound exhaust.</p>
<p>I explained why  the 50 year old studies are legitimate and today&#8217;s are not in a way that<br />
if you dispute it you&#8217;re an ass. You don&#8217;t care. You&#8217;ve been irrevocably brainwashed and can&#8217;t process anything but antitobacco propaganda.<br />
Thank goodness you don&#8217;t have any political power.</p>
<p>And Smoke-Free, that goes for you too, no brain.</p>
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		<title>By: Smoke-Free</title>
		<link>http://forthandback.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/smoking-in-the-usa/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Smoke-Free</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 22:39:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forthandback.wordpress.com/?p=48#comment-153</guid>
		<description>Joe Camel:
Wow, interesting blog...you may still be alive, but obviously your brain has a few holes in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe Camel:<br />
Wow, interesting blog&#8230;you may still be alive, but obviously your brain has a few holes in it.</p>
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		<title>By: Back</title>
		<link>http://forthandback.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/smoking-in-the-usa/#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator>Back</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 19:57:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forthandback.wordpress.com/?p=48#comment-152</guid>
		<description>What is factual is that a smoker cannot experience &quot;their own secondhand smoke.&quot; That phrase is an oxymoron. I&#039;m fairly certain puffing away on a cigarette is about as firsthand as it gets. Anything secondhand is merely icing on the cake. 
If you think the American government is the only one &quot;lying&quot; about the dangers of regularly inhaling hundreds of chemicals and carcinogens, then I&#039;d love to know why smoking bans and warning labels on packs are an international trend. Tobacco is only one of over 600 additives in a normal pack of cigarettes, which as Joe Camel you should well know.
But seeing how convincing an aging smoker who puts his trust in studies that were conducted during a time where smoking ads also advertised that smoking would make you ten times cooler and that much  more likely to get laid, that smoking is not unlike sucking on the exhaust pipe of a Greyhound Bus or swallowing rat poison, I&#039;ll enjoy my pristine lungs, unwrinkled mouth, and unstained fingers that much more instead.
As for those tar-stained lungs, until you stand in a cadaver lab between the yellowed bodies of two dead men, one smoker and one not, and pluck their lungs out of their gaping chest cavities to carefully observe one pair versus the other, well....I&#039;m sure you&#039;d find that just as phony.
But congrats on being a living a smoker--I&#039;m certain the 438,000 other ones who died last year wish they were as successful at poisoning themselves as you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is factual is that a smoker cannot experience &#8220;their own secondhand smoke.&#8221; That phrase is an oxymoron. I&#8217;m fairly certain puffing away on a cigarette is about as firsthand as it gets. Anything secondhand is merely icing on the cake.<br />
If you think the American government is the only one &#8220;lying&#8221; about the dangers of regularly inhaling hundreds of chemicals and carcinogens, then I&#8217;d love to know why smoking bans and warning labels on packs are an international trend. Tobacco is only one of over 600 additives in a normal pack of cigarettes, which as Joe Camel you should well know.<br />
But seeing how convincing an aging smoker who puts his trust in studies that were conducted during a time where smoking ads also advertised that smoking would make you ten times cooler and that much  more likely to get laid, that smoking is not unlike sucking on the exhaust pipe of a Greyhound Bus or swallowing rat poison, I&#8217;ll enjoy my pristine lungs, unwrinkled mouth, and unstained fingers that much more instead.<br />
As for those tar-stained lungs, until you stand in a cadaver lab between the yellowed bodies of two dead men, one smoker and one not, and pluck their lungs out of their gaping chest cavities to carefully observe one pair versus the other, well&#8230;.I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;d find that just as phony.<br />
But congrats on being a living a smoker&#8211;I&#8217;m certain the 438,000 other ones who died last year wish they were as successful at poisoning themselves as you.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Camel</title>
		<link>http://forthandback.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/smoking-in-the-usa/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Camel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 17:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://forthandback.wordpress.com/?p=48#comment-151</guid>
		<description>Back:

Of all that fanciful nonsense you  posted, the
only truth is that the government lies about tobacco.

You&#039;ve been listening to paid liars, swallowed it wholesale and dynamite wouldn&#039;t change it.

But it doesn&#039;t matter what a numbskull like you believes. As I&#039;ve pointed out repeatedly. these matters are governed by law and that&#039;s the province of politicians who follow the biggest bribe.

Should our paths cross , its conceivable that you would squawk about my smoke killing you and making your clothes stink. I don&#039;t care the least about that-- I only answer to the law.

Maybe you&#039;re the person to answer a question I&#039;m having trouble getting an answer to: Why aren&#039;t smokers killed by their own secondhand smoke? Let&#039;s keep that answer factual and not made up, OK?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back:</p>
<p>Of all that fanciful nonsense you  posted, the<br />
only truth is that the government lies about tobacco.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve been listening to paid liars, swallowed it wholesale and dynamite wouldn&#8217;t change it.</p>
<p>But it doesn&#8217;t matter what a numbskull like you believes. As I&#8217;ve pointed out repeatedly. these matters are governed by law and that&#8217;s the province of politicians who follow the biggest bribe.</p>
<p>Should our paths cross , its conceivable that you would squawk about my smoke killing you and making your clothes stink. I don&#8217;t care the least about that&#8211; I only answer to the law.</p>
<p>Maybe you&#8217;re the person to answer a question I&#8217;m having trouble getting an answer to: Why aren&#8217;t smokers killed by their own secondhand smoke? Let&#8217;s keep that answer factual and not made up, OK?</p>
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